When is Killing or Punishing a Human Being Justifiable?

UltimateContrarian wrote:

nicki wrote: That feel when a thread that had potential gets majorly derailed..

Please do go on though.. ^^

I am sorry, to disappoint you, but this is exactly how I imagined this thread to be concluded when I originally started it. I feel it has blossomed to its fullest potential, if not exceeded it.

Whatusername wrote: I know exactly where this thread is going. Here's a preview:

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Pretty much what happens

We established that it wouldn't be in the interest of business or businessmen to have uncertainly or chaos. Also not politicians. So who within the CIA? The Director of Central Intelligence before 2005 or Director of CIA as that new position was created in 2005? Consider those positions are changed every few years, how does a multi-year infiltration plan gets passed down? If it's someone lower down the command, how does that person benefit from civil chaos? Consider no officers that've been involved in the shootings have been mysteriously killed or disappeared, how does your theory stacks up? There are witness protections and FBI that officers can turn to if their family has been threaten, unless those organizations have also been infiltrated by Hydra? Do the Avengers need to assemble? Seriously, take off the tinfoil hat.

joestarbill wrote:

nicki wrote: That feel when a thread that had potential gets majorly derailed..

Please do go on though.. ^^

I wanted to say the same thing, but you beat me to it

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we're talking about punishment and pain, which means the thread is still on topic.

nicki wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:

nicki wrote: That feel when a thread that had potential gets majorly derailed..

Please do go on though.. ^^

I am sorry, to disappoint you, but this is exactly how I imagined this thread to be concluded when I originally started it. I feel it has blossomed to its fullest potential, if not exceeded it.

No worries
I was just hoping for a more philosophical approach about death sentence, second chances and forgiveness.. Oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There's still room for that.

Whatusername wrote: We established that it wouldn't be in the interest of business or businessmen to have uncertainly or chaos. Also not politicians. So who within the CIA? The Director of Central Intelligence before 2005 or Director of CIA as that new position was created in 2005? Consider those position is changed every few years, how does a multi-year infiltration plan gets passed down? If it's someone lower down the command, how does that person benefit from civil chaos? Consider no officers that've been involved in the shootings have been mysteriously killed or disappeared, how does your theory stacks up? There are witness protections and FBI that officers can turn to if their family has been threaten, unless those organizations have also been infiltrated by Hydra? Do the Avengers need to assemble? Seriously, take off the tinfoil hat.

Well I guess this fascinating discussion draws to an end. And I know you wanna call me the Conspiracy theorist and I can call you the naive, oblivious one, a type of thinking (that can easily be remedied by a brief visit to history) shared by the billions of people all throughout history, victims of genocide/democide who at one point remarked "Why on earth would the government kill us, it is of their best interest to protect us, you know?" then another second, they are being led to the slaughterhouse.

Anyway, I admire your skepticism though a product of historical ignorance, it is still commendable, you will actually maximize its full potential when it is pointed at the right direction.

nicki wrote: This is a topic I usually avoid talking about because most people react very shocked about my opinion but since nobody else has expressed a similar thought so far I'm gonna throw it out there for argument's sake..

I think that a person who has chosen to take the life of another human being has lost any rights whatsoever in that very moment..
If there really was a mental illness behind it and that person was not capable of telling the right from the wrong, then this person should nonetheless be taken away from society to avoid future incidents that might or might not occur..
Is there a chance that they might be "saved"? Perhaps, but I'm not willing to take the risk..

I always found it fascinating that there are different degrees of murder charges, from premeditated killing in first degree down to man slaughter from accident or negligence. I agree that first degree murders probably deserve death penalty. Other degrees such as from emotion of the moment, that's a really grey area. I don't think we fully understands the variations of the human mind yet, and some people are more prone to lose self control when exposed to all the chemicals and hormone that release during emotion. Capital punishment across all degrees of murder may not be the most appropriate.

As far as mentally illed, I don't have a full understanding of how they're prosecuted. But I do see that the difference between someone who's sent to a mental institution and someone who's prosecuted as a serial killer could just be timing. The two people might be entirely the same and one would just have been discovered sooner while other person would have been allowed to run its course.

UltimateContrarian wrote:

Whatusername wrote: We established that it wouldn't be in the interest of business or businessmen to have uncertainly or chaos. Also not politicians. So who within the CIA? The Director of Central Intelligence before 2005 or Director of CIA as that new position was created in 2005? Consider those position is changed every few years, how does a multi-year infiltration plan gets passed down? If it's someone lower down the command, how does that person benefit from civil chaos? Consider no officers that've been involved in the shootings have been mysteriously killed or disappeared, how does your theory stacks up? There are witness protections and FBI that officers can turn to if their family has been threaten, unless those organizations have also been infiltrated by Hydra? Do the Avengers need to assemble? Seriously, take off the tinfoil hat.

Well I guess this fascinating discussion draws to an end. And I know you wanna call me the Conspiracy theorist and I can call you the naive, oblivious one, a type of thinking (that can easily be remedied by a brief visit to history) shared by the billions of people all throughout history, victims of genocide/democide who at one point remarked "Why on earth would the government kill us, it is of their best interest to protect us, you know?" then another second, they are being led to the slaughterhouse.

Anyway, I admire your skepticism though a product of historical ignorance, it is still commendable, you will actually maximize its full potential when it is pointed at the right direction.

But you're not talking about whether any government is capable of doing that. You're talking about the current United States, 2016. You're talking about the recent police shootings, so then your theory would have been carried out in the past decade. Yes, plenty of governements killed its own people in history, but those governements share elements such as one party/person having absolute power, and most if not all were not first world countries. Governments can plot and kill its own citizens, yes, but not the current 2006 to 2016 United States, not with its current political climate. THAT's the difference. If it's someone from the CIA, even if they do carry out that plan, it will gain them nothing, because as you said, the politicians would not be involved. How can the government made up of hundreds of politicians, grab power from the people when they're just oblivious of this "master plan"? I welcome questioning of authority and skepticism of ones in power. But wild improbable conspiracy theories are just that. You would have had more logical backing on conspiracy theory that the US government was involved in 9/11 in order to start war in the Middle East for oil. At least that theory follows a logical flow of cause, effect, and motivation.

Since you're from the Philippines and your newly elected president is a maniac who's openly talked about killing of its own citizens, I can see how that would affect your world view. United States isn't the same. At least not yet, pending the result of this November.

That moment when your boyfriend smacks down an absurd argument with cool logic and sound reason.



On topic: there are way too many innocent people convicted of crimes to justify a death penalty.

nanox wrote: That moment when your boyfriend smacks down an absurd argument with cool logic and sound reason.

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On topic: there are way too many innocent people convicted of crimes to justify a death penalty.

I agree, but leaving murderers in prison alive taking from tax payers' money isn't great either, especially if rehabilitation isn't guaranteed.