When is Killing or Punishing a Human Being Justifiable?

UltimateContrarian wrote:

nanox wrote: I already gave you my answer.

Yes, but when you are no longer in an actual threat by these people, and you have them as captives. Do you think it is moral to punish them or kill them on the basis that they are sick people, who just happened to have part of their brain dysfunctional or a tumor growing in their brains making them a handicap to self-restraint and feelings of empathy?

I'm just going to wait here until you circle back around.

UltimateContrarian wrote:

jasonlovecamera wrote: When Jesus is nailed on the cross, he told his followers, "father forgive them (the jews and romans), for they do not know what they are doing". So i believe from the christian point of view, the right thing to do is not to punish them.

Hm but it was Jesus who introduced the idea of hell. It was in the new testament that those who deny Jesus as the son of God will be faced with eternal torment. There was nothing in the bible that abolishes the idea of hell. So what Jesus said, basically means nothing.

Jesus was not the one who introduced the idea of hell. I highly recommend the book Histoire des enfers (A History of Infernos) by Georges Minois . For instance, in the old religions of Mesopotamia, hell was the automatic destination for all people. You will see that the New Testament is fairly consistent with the Old Testament on the issue of hell But the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross is the only one that offers mankind the hope of salvation from eternal torment.

I also think that killing another human being is never justifiable (this includes abortion). How can people be victims of biology when God gave us free will? Of course, there are retarded people, but the cases that you mentioned (pedophiles, serial killers etc) are in my view examples of persons who have chosen to act in a despicable way. Thus they deserve punishment, but not death, because ultimately they can repent for their actions and be saved

KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:

jasonlovecamera wrote: When Jesus is nailed on the cross, he told his followers, "father forgive them (the jews and romans), for they do not know what they are doing". So i believe from the christian point of view, the right thing to do is not to punish them.

Hm but it was Jesus who introduced the idea of hell. It was in the new testament that those who deny Jesus as the son of God will be faced with eternal torment. There was nothing in the bible that abolishes the idea of hell. So what Jesus said, basically means nothing.

Jesus was not the one who introduced the idea of hell. I highly recommend the book Histoire des enfers (A History of Infernos) by Georges Minois . For instance, in the old religions of Mesopotamia, hell was the automatic destination for all people. You will see that the New Testament is fairly consistent with the Old Testament on the issue of hell But the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross is the only one that offers mankind the hope of salvation from eternal torment.

I also think that killing another human being is never justifiable (this includes abortion). How can people be victims of biology when God gave us free will? Of course, there are retarded people, but the cases that you mentioned (pedophiles, serial killers etc) are in my view examples of persons who have chosen to act in a despicable way. Thus they deserve punishment, but not death, because ultimately they can repent for their actions and be saved

I regard whatever is in the bible to silly, and stupid really. I believe that heaven and hell are constructs of the mind, man-made manacles that can only be believed by a person from the bronze-age, or with a thinking so obsolete that it belongs to the bronze-age.

One thing about freewill though. Yes, I have freewill, I was given it, I have no choice. See what I just did there?

UltimateContrarian wrote:

KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:

jasonlovecamera wrote: When Jesus is nailed on the cross, he told his followers, "father forgive them (the jews and romans), for they do not know what they are doing". So i believe from the christian point of view, the right thing to do is not to punish them.

Hm but it was Jesus who introduced the idea of hell. It was in the new testament that those who deny Jesus as the son of God will be faced with eternal torment. There was nothing in the bible that abolishes the idea of hell. So what Jesus said, basically means nothing.

Jesus was not the one who introduced the idea of hell. I highly recommend the book Histoire des enfers (A History of Infernos) by Georges Minois . For instance, in the old religions of Mesopotamia, hell was the automatic destination for all people. You will see that the New Testament is fairly consistent with the Old Testament on the issue of hell But the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross is the only one that offers mankind the hope of salvation from eternal torment.

I also think that killing another human being is never justifiable (this includes abortion). How can people be victims of biology when God gave us free will? Of course, there are retarded people, but the cases that you mentioned (pedophiles, serial killers etc) are in my view examples of persons who have chosen to act in a despicable way. Thus they deserve punishment, but not death, because ultimately they can repent for their actions and be saved

I regard whatever is in the bible to silly, and stupid really. I believe that heaven and hell are constructs of the mind, man-made manacles that can only be believed by a person from the bronze-age, or with a thinking so obsolete that it belongs to the bronze-age.

One thing about freewill though. Yes, I have freewill, I was given it, I have no choice. See what I just did there?

There must be a lot of bronze-age people in the world today, I guess we are time travelers

Yes, we did not have a choice about being given free will. But once we were given free will... Our responsibility is much greater than we might have supposed, because it involves all mankind.

KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:

KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:

jasonlovecamera wrote: When Jesus is nailed on the cross, he told his followers, "father forgive them (the jews and romans), for they do not know what they are doing". So i believe from the christian point of view, the right thing to do is not to punish them.

Hm but it was Jesus who introduced the idea of hell. It was in the new testament that those who deny Jesus as the son of God will be faced with eternal torment. There was nothing in the bible that abolishes the idea of hell. So what Jesus said, basically means nothing.

Jesus was not the one who introduced the idea of hell. I highly recommend the book Histoire des enfers (A History of Infernos) by Georges Minois . For instance, in the old religions of Mesopotamia, hell was the automatic destination for all people. You will see that the New Testament is fairly consistent with the Old Testament on the issue of hell But the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross is the only one that offers mankind the hope of salvation from eternal torment.

I also think that killing another human being is never justifiable (this includes abortion). How can people be victims of biology when God gave us free will? Of course, there are retarded people, but the cases that you mentioned (pedophiles, serial killers etc) are in my view examples of persons who have chosen to act in a despicable way. Thus they deserve punishment, but not death, because ultimately they can repent for their actions and be saved

I regard whatever is in the bible to silly, and stupid really. I believe that heaven and hell are constructs of the mind, man-made manacles that can only be believed by a person from the bronze-age, or with a thinking so obsolete that it belongs to the bronze-age.

One thing about freewill though. Yes, I have freewill, I was given it, I have no choice. See what I just did there?

There must be a lot of bronze-age people in the world today, I guess we are time travelers

Yes, we did not have a choice about being given free will. But once we were given free will... Our responsibility is much greater than we might have supposed, because it involves all mankind.

Yes, some people just never grow up, some people just cannot shake off the remnants of their lowly origin.

UltimateContrarian wrote:
Yes, some people just never grow up, some people just cannot shake off the remnants of their lowly origin.

It is true, we were made out of clay, and thus it is hard to rise above our sinful condition. Only faith can make you see beyond the earthly things and attain spiritual growth

Like watching someone talk to themselves in a mirror.

nanox wrote:

Like watching someone talk to themselves in a mirror.

For me it is always funny to watch atheists argue because it reminds me of religious controversies

just make sure you keep family and friends of the murdered or victimized away from the killers/perpetrators because you can't ask those people to hold things in if it's too hard for them.

China mainlanders kidnapped Hong Kong most rich person's son.The price he asked for got him killed at the end.