When is Killing or Punishing a Human Being Justifiable?

UltimateContrarian wrote: I do not have concrete evidence, thus I stated this to be a suspicion and not a factual claim. And my suspicions are reasonable enough, and the current state of the United States shows its signs of the early stages of a Totalitarian setup. History is ripe with examples that support my suspicion. Let us take one example, here in the Philippines, in the dictatorship of Marcos, a few weeks before Martial law was declared, rumors have spread in the country of a threat of a group of communists, there were murders reported, not one was confirmed, but propaganda made it seem to be legitimate threat, thus Marcos responded by taking away the guns of the public, and a week after, he declared martial law, and began the massacre of Filipinos and his political enemies. Years after the martial law, it has been confirmed that there were no Communist presence in the country, and that the events that justified the declaration of Martial law were false-flag attacks, even the building of the legend that is Marcos, stories of him as a war hero, were lies.

And no, if you have a setup where you can only expose a corruption on the inside, through whistle blowers alone, then you have a faulty system. If you only depend on whistleblowers, men of character and courage to expose corruption, knowing how there is only one in a million of them, considering the fact that pyschopaths are the ones who are mostly drawn to power thus populate the government almost entirely, then you can be sure that 99 percent of the time, corruptions are carried out smoothly safely tucked in from the light of day. And if you have a public that just really doesn't care, distracted by the media, and the entertainment business, you can be sure that even if such a government conspiracy is exposed, as Snowden did, and the gravity of what he exposed and its implications, that it will be ignored.

Yeah, key word “dictatorship”. United States is a Democratic Republic. The power is so divided out amongst the branches that often nothing gets done. Elected officials spend half if not more of their time on reelections. But that’s also the price to pay for someone or some party having too much power. Here there are two parties that will not hesitant for a second to expose the dirty political laundry of the other party. Premeditate killing of citizens to induce civil unrest and therefore gain more power is literally treason. Anything idea that even resembles what you talked about is enough to completely destroy a party and the other party will not be hesitant to share that discovery in order to gain power. So then that cannot be a bi-partisan plan. It must be done within one party then? Since the Democrats have the executive branch, are you saying it’s their plan? So tell me, why would Obama, the first African American president, on his last year of presidency, promote a plan to for the government to gain more power by asking the police to kill innocent black men? This isn’t to say there isn’t corruption in the US government. There are plenty, even in this election. But the corruptions here are mainly monetary or for personal power gain. A mass power grab by the government as an entity simply can’t happen as long as the constitution is in place.

Yes, it’s just your suspicion, but it so ridiculous and has zero grounds.

I understand why you think my suspicion is a ridiculous one from your perspective. I mistrust power, especially when it is centralized, and there is no transparency in the affairs that have been conducted. I do not think there are two parties, it is merely an illusion of choice, I do not believe that a president is in control, they are all paid off and like shadows on the wall, they are irrelevant, and the powers that be are the bankers that control the federal reserve, bankers and businessmen. What is ridiculous and quite naive, is to still believe in the idea that people who are in power are working for the service and benefit of the public. And we all know that the American Constitution is being raped, and now almost indistinguishable from what the forefathers of America had originally written.

You're right that bankers and businessmen heavily influence politicians and politicians no longer act with the best interest of the people but those that fund their campaign. But the scenario you described will not benefit the business people or the market, so that's definitely not the will of those puppet masters.

Well, there is an impending economic collapse, the collapse of Capitalism itself, nations lending money to other nations, money they do not have to nations who cannot pay, the only way to seem to survive recession, with a 7-year cycle for it to occur, is to create more debt, and debt upon debt which is the case in America and nations in Europe. It cannot go on forever, the more they wanna postpone the fall by printing fiat money, that has no gold or silver to back it up, the more the fall becomes devastating. And you can see this now, getting more intense. I suspect, that when it does fall, it is only a matter of time, that governments can immediately assume full power when their respective currencies have lost their value and the people have no more purchasing power. Then the system will collapse on its own, unless they prepare for it, by taking away the right of the people little by little each day, for them to remain in power and in control.

And what does all that you said have to do with your claim of possibility of police killing citizens on purpose? Seriously, play out your scenario. Who comes up with that idea in the first place? Who then does that person coordinate with to gain support for that idea? What branch of government will then carry out the plan? Consider each police department is actually local organization instead of a federal chain, how does the order gets pass down? They then know exactly which police to recruit that will say "Kill innocent people so the government can gain more control? Yeah sure I'm down with that", without accidentally reveal this plan to anyone that's a good person?

Whatusername wrote: And what does all that you said have to do with your claim of possibility of police killing citizens on purpose? Seriously, play out your scenario. Who comes up with that idea in the first place? Who then does that person coordinate with to gain support for that idea? What branch of government will then carry out the plan? Consider each police department is actually local organization instead of a federal chain, how does the order gets pass down? They then know exactly which police to recruit that will say "Kill innocent people so the government can gain more control? Yeah sure I'm down with that", without accidentally reveal this plan to anyone that's a good person?

Well, again, you greatly underestimate power, power backed by billions of dollars, operating with full impunity and total secrecy, with the best minds at their disposal, and the media, you cannot even begin to grasp how subtle such manipulations and deception they can pull off. And if you just find it so improbable that governments become an entirely different entity, and start executing its own people for its own agenda, then again, history is ripe with example.

Please answer the question on how that will get carried out. You're now just defecting and talking about vague abstract things around the questions, like a politician.

Whatusername wrote: Please answer the question on how that will get carried out. You're now just defecting and talking about vague abstract things around the questions, like a politician.

Well since I am not making a factual claim, and my argument is only that, it is more likely than otherwise, it is more likely since there have been documented events that things of this nature does occur to push an economic or political agenda. But if you want me to use my imagination, I will. Politicians have no idea, they don't see the big picture, since they are just mere puppets, given little roles to play and they are definitely subservient to the people who have financed their campaign. lobbyist, that have secure them their position. So if there was an order, it wouldn't be handed from the top down, a series of surgically precise operations conducted by the CIA with the highest security level, known only to the few, with the military mentality of not questioning authority but to follow orders without question, assured that is is something patriotic and desperate measures must be made, psychopaths, make them assume a new identity, have him hired in the police department for years, to stand ready until orders are given, then boom, he can be killed himself, or given a new identity. Or if he is a regular policeman, then of course, anybody can be made an offer he cannot refuse, to do it or either risk the safety of his family. Who would be a whistle-blower when you know that the minute that you do, your family can be executed, and just be wiped out from the face of the earth without trace. I can even think of this, how much more can they?

nicki wrote: That feel when a thread that had potential gets majorly derailed..

Please do go on though.. ^^

I wanted to say the same thing, but you beat me to it

nicki wrote: That feel when a thread that had potential gets majorly derailed..

Please do go on though.. ^^

I am sorry, to disappoint you, but this is exactly how I imagined this thread to be concluded when I originally started it. I feel it has blossomed to its fullest potential, if not exceeded it.