When is Killing or Punishing a Human Being Justifiable?

KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:
Yes, some people just never grow up, some people just cannot shake off the remnants of their lowly origin.

It is true, we were made out of clay, and thus it is hard to rise above our sinful condition. Only faith can make you see beyond the earthly things and attain spiritual growth

What an immoral and retarded idea, "Created sick, commanded to be well". You are born wretched, but you can cleanse yourself from the sins your creator had gifted you in the first place, but then you can be saved, for a very cheap price of surrendering your critical faculties and succumb to credulity and servility.

And do not even begin to talk about the original sin, it is immoral to punish someone for the sins of his or her forefathers/foremothers. Not only every thing you have said is wrong, without evidence, it is also highly immoral.

since we are animals deep down by nature, you are asking innate killers if it's ok to kill. is it ok for a snowman to melt? is it ok for the tide to wax and wane? (i am bored.)

*edit: actually, why is it so easy for us to get angry? maybe because we're wild by nature. i don't know. *i guess we are just very sensitive.

patches wrote: since we are animals deep down by nature, you are asking innate killers if it's ok to kill. is it ok for a snowman to melt? is it ok for the tide to wax and wane? (i am bored.)

*edit: actually, why is it so easy for us to get angry? maybe because we're wild by nature. i don't know. *i guess we are just very sensitive.

True, if a bear mauls a person in the streets, do we kill that bear? No, we lead it back to its habitat. Since it is just a bear behaving like a bear. If a crocodile bites off my arm, and I survive the ordeal, should I punish the crocodile for behaving like a crocodile? Are people any different, Not really. We do not have to demonize crimes. We should treat them like illnesses.

half of me understands that, the other half dislikes criminals.
but, i agree that rehabilitation is needed, otherwise things get worse.

Yes, reacting in love rather than in fear and anger always heals a multitude of ills, if not all.
But I always think what if it were my friend or family of which a heinous crime is committed to. Will I be able to maintain that philosophy? I don't think so.

yep, very difficult to handle. just the trauma of it alone would be hard to live with.

UltimateContrarian wrote:

KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:
Yes, some people just never grow up, some people just cannot shake off the remnants of their lowly origin.

It is true, we were made out of clay, and thus it is hard to rise above our sinful condition. Only faith can make you see beyond the earthly things and attain spiritual growth

What an immoral and retarded idea, "Created sick, commanded to be well". You are born wretched, but you can cleanse yourself from the sins your creator had gifted you in the first place, but then you can be saved, for a very cheap price of surrendering your critical faculties and succumb to credulity and servility.

And do not even begin to talk about the original sin, it is immoral to punish someone for the sins of his or her forefathers/foremothers. Not only every thing you have said is wrong, without evidence, it is also highly immoral.

Sure you can believe religion is a make-up fantasy, i can't argue with you about that. But for the people who believed in Christ, punishment doesn't come with sinning because Jesus died for our sins, so Christians don't believe in punishing since we are already saved. As for non-christians who are condemned to eternal hell, well since they don't believe in hell either, they don't suffer the thought of entering hell. And for christians who believe, then we won't commit crimes or punish people, so everyone's happy

jasonlovecamera wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:

KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:
Yes, some people just never grow up, some people just cannot shake off the remnants of their lowly origin.

It is true, we were made out of clay, and thus it is hard to rise above our sinful condition. Only faith can make you see beyond the earthly things and attain spiritual growth

What an immoral and retarded idea, "Created sick, commanded to be well". You are born wretched, but you can cleanse yourself from the sins your creator had gifted you in the first place, but then you can be saved, for a very cheap price of surrendering your critical faculties and succumb to credulity and servility.

And do not even begin to talk about the original sin, it is immoral to punish someone for the sins of his or her forefathers/foremothers. Not only every thing you have said is wrong, without evidence, it is also highly immoral.

Sure you can believe religion is a make-up fantasy, i can't argue with you about that. But for the people who believed in Christ, punishment doesn't come with sinning because Jesus died for our sins, so Christians don't believe in punishing since we are already saved. As for non-christians who are condemned to eternal hell, well since they don't believe in hell either, they don't suffer the thought of entering hell. And for christians who believe, then we won't commit crimes or punish people, so everyone's happy

Well, it would be great if we can just fantasize about what happens when we die, and it magically manifests itself. But it doesn't. It is wishful thinking. We can't just pick any versions of what we want to be real. We are subject to only one version, what it is I can't be sure, nobody can be sure either. So let us not pretend to know what we cannot know.

UltimateContrarian wrote:

jasonlovecamera wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:

KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:
Yes, some people just never grow up, some people just cannot shake off the remnants of their lowly origin.

It is true, we were made out of clay, and thus it is hard to rise above our sinful condition. Only faith can make you see beyond the earthly things and attain spiritual growth

What an immoral and retarded idea, "Created sick, commanded to be well". You are born wretched, but you can cleanse yourself from the sins your creator had gifted you in the first place, but then you can be saved, for a very cheap price of surrendering your critical faculties and succumb to credulity and servility.

And do not even begin to talk about the original sin, it is immoral to punish someone for the sins of his or her forefathers/foremothers. Not only every thing you have said is wrong, without evidence, it is also highly immoral.

Sure you can believe religion is a make-up fantasy, i can't argue with you about that. But for the people who believed in Christ, punishment doesn't come with sinning because Jesus died for our sins, so Christians don't believe in punishing since we are already saved. As for non-christians who are condemned to eternal hell, well since they don't believe in hell either, they don't suffer the thought of entering hell. And for christians who believe, then we won't commit crimes or punish people, so everyone's happy

Well, it would be great if we can just fantasize about what happens when we die, and it magically manifests itself. But it doesn't. It is wishful thinking. We can't just pick any versions of what we want to be real. We are subject to only one version, what it is I can't be sure, nobody can be sure either. So let us not pretend to know what we cannot know.

Yeah i know your point, i cant justify the validity of the claims for u, but i can tell u the implications of believing it, which is already elaborated by my previous comment Whatever happen in the afterlife may be indeed a fantasy, but it guides us to do the right things in the current life. I know u don't agree that we will go to heaven or hell, but believers who follow the teachings will not dare to commit murder for the fear of repercussion, i think that's the implication of believing it. And i don't pretend i know what i do not know, i know for the fact that living a life without a sense of moral duty or obligations to the community and lack of emotional support often lead to divorce, depression, crimes and other vice in society. Maybe you can find yours through pursuit of knowledge and truth, maybe u can find the peace in other things, but many do not. If religion is a good guiding principle for some people, why not?

UltimateContrarian wrote:

patches wrote: since we are animals deep down by nature, you are asking innate killers if it's ok to kill. is it ok for a snowman to melt? is it ok for the tide to wax and wane? (i am bored.)

*edit: actually, why is it so easy for us to get angry? maybe because we're wild by nature. i don't know. *i guess we are just very sensitive.

True, if a bear mauls a person in the streets, do we kill that bear? No, we lead it back to its habitat. Since it is just a bear behaving like a bear. If a crocodile bites off my arm, and I survive the ordeal, should I punish the crocodile for behaving like a crocodile? Are people any different, Not really. We do not have to demonize crimes. We should treat them like illnesses.

We kill wild predatory animals who do nothing more than wander into residential areas all the time. We don't lead the bear back to its habitat. We shoot it. When sharks attack people we cull them. I get your point and agree with it, but that's a faulty analogy.