When is Killing or Punishing a Human Being Justifiable?

UltimateContrarian wrote: Yes, just because they stand on the side of authority, doesn't exempt them. It is disgraceful that these people walk around, resort to killing when tolerant means should be employed, and inflict unnecessary damage with impunity. It is the same in every country, though differing in regularity and notoriety, to correct it would mean to reformation of our justice system, and rightly so, because it is obsolete.

i am wondering what kind of reprimanding should be given to them since sticking people in prison has been proven to make them worse.

patches wrote:

joestarbill wrote: Police killing innocent people is wrong, but when their lives are on the line should they have the right to put down the person is in the gray area. When police decide to shoot people because they are either afraid or unable to take control of the situation in a lawful manner, then they don't have the right to kill the person in question. However, in the case of Robert Dziekański, the police had no right of tasering him to death since in the police testimony they said that Robert was being "defensive" and he was being very "aggressive" when it was not the case. There was that incident that police shot and killed a schizophrenic when he attacked them with a knife, is that abusing their power or is that considered self defense?

Either way, I believe that police should be equipped with tranquilizers as opposed to firearms like in the anime Ajin, or maybe we could live in the anime world of Psycho Pass, that would solve a lot of the problems.

i like what you said about the tranquilizers, something to stop them in their tracks without killing them. i don't know anything about things in the Psycho Pass world.

i didn't know about Robert Dziekanski. it is insane to me that cops aren't monitored.

Robert Dziekanski taser case was one of the largest examples of police abusing their power and then making false stories to cover up their actions.

Psycho Pass is an anime in a futuristic setting where people are given biological scans called criminal coefficients. In a sense society is like a cage since everything (their jobs, their lifestyle, their attitude and how they are dealt with by police) are controlled by an AI program called the Sibyl System (I won't go into details since it is a massive spoiler). Citizens are constantly scanned, even from birth, they are determined whether or not they will become criminals in the future. Police are equipped with dominators that transform given the person that they are dealing with. Since an individual's criminal coefficient changes when they are in a midst of a crime, the gun will determine whether that individual is capable of reform or not. If the coefficient is above a certain number, the gun is put into lethal mode and the individual is killed, otherwise it would just knock them out. The anime gives you a lot of questions, and I love it because I can think more about it while I watch it; there is no right answer.

The issues of tranquilizers are that they don't take effect immediately like in shows, so they cannot immediately neutralize the threat. The dosage needed would also depends on the size of the person. A dose that takes down a regular person might not be as effective on a larger criminal, or might kill smaller size criminal anyways. They're also easy to armor against, so they won't be effective against armed and armored criminals intend to do harm. Their range is also limited.

Police already has a short range nonlethal weapon, tasers. But it seems they're quick to just shoot suspects during altercation instead of neutralize them with taser lately...

joestarbill wrote: Robert Dziekanski taser case was one of the largest examples of police abusing their power and then making false stories to cover up their actions.

wow, too bad for him but at least they got caught.

joestarbill wrote:
Psycho Pass is an anime in a futuristic setting where people are given biological scans called criminal coefficients. In a sense society is like a cage since everything (their jobs, their lifestyle, their attitude and how they are dealt with by police) are controlled by an AI program called the Sibyl System (I won't go into details since it is a massive spoiler). Citizens are constantly scanned, even from birth, they are determined whether or not they will become criminals in the future. Police are equipped with dominators that transform given the person that they are dealing with. Since an individual's criminal coefficient changes when they are in a midst of a crime, the gun will determine whether that individual is capable of reform or not. If the coefficient is above a certain number, the gun is put into lethal mode and the individual is killed, otherwise it would just knock them out. The anime gives you a lot of questions, and I love it because I can think more about it while I watch it; there is no right answer.

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oh, i see. sounds very complicated in a good way.

Whatusername wrote: The issues of tranquilizers are that they don't take effect immediately like in shows, so they cannot immediately neutralize the threat. The dosage needed would also depends on the size of the person. A dose that takes down a regular person might not be as effective on a larger criminal, or might kill smaller size criminal anyways. They're also easy to armor against, so they won't be effective against armed and armored criminals intend to do harm. Their range is also limited.

Police already has a short range nonlethal weapon, trasers. But it seems they're quick to just shoot suspects during altercation instead of neutralize them with taser lately...

i see.
maybe someone will design something even better one day.

i just barely learned about robots killing criminals because of the recent cop killings in dallas.

Whatusername wrote: The issues of tranquilizers are that they don't take effect immediately like in shows, so they cannot immediately neutralize the threat. The dosage needed would also depends on the size of the person. A dose that takes down a regular person might not be as effective on a larger criminal, or might kill smaller size criminal anyways. They're also easy to armor against, so they won't be effective against armed and armored criminals intend to do harm. Their range is also limited.

Police already has a short range nonlethal weapon, trasers. But it seems they're quick to just shoot suspects during altercation instead of neutralize them with taser lately...

joestarbill wrote:

Whatusername wrote: The issues of tranquilizers are that they don't take effect immediately like in shows, so they cannot immediately neutralize the threat. The dosage needed would also depends on the size of the person. A dose that takes down a regular person might not be as effective on a larger criminal, or might kill smaller size criminal anyways. They're also easy to armor against, so they won't be effective against armed and armored criminals intend to do harm. Their range is also limited.

Police already has a short range nonlethal weapon, trasers. But it seems they're quick to just shoot suspects during altercation instead of neutralize them with taser lately...

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They should wrist mount that for quick access. Perhaps it also needs to come with protective police suits that's also tight fit to be aerodynamic. A red and blue color theme would be patriotic.

I suspect that these police killings are premeditated and designed to generate public outrage that would almost certainly result to an uprising, of which is the desired effect so then a government can impose stricter laws and declare a martial law, then the government will perpetrate a war, and massacre its own people. This has happened many times before for many centuries, when a democratic country starts to become usurpatious and totalitarian.

UltimateContrarian wrote: I suspect that these police killings are premeditated and designed to generate public outrage that would almost certainly result to an uprising, of which is the desired effect so then a government can impose stricter laws and declare a martial law, then the government will perpetrate a war, and massacre its own people. This has happened many times before for many centuries, when a democratic country starts to become usurpatious and totalitarian.

I HIGHLY doubt that... Where's the evidence to back this? Someone/something would have to organize this and recruit the officers to do the killing. There are hundreds of thousands of police officers of all race across the nation. Each of them have their own family and friends. You don't think there would be one whistle blower? For someone who's so stead fast on facts and science, this conspiracy theory is out of character.

Whatusername wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote: I suspect that these police killings are premeditated and designed to generate public outrage that would almost certainly result to an uprising, of which is the desired effect so then a government can impose stricter laws and declare a martial law, then the government will perpetrate a war, and massacre its own people. This has happened many times before for many centuries, when a democratic country starts to become usurpatious and totalitarian.

I HIGHLY doubt that... Where's the evidence to back this? Someone/something would have to organize this and recruit the officers to do the killing. There are hundreds of thousands of police officers of all race across the nation. Each of them have their own family and friends. You don't think there would be one whistle blower? For someone who's so stead fast on facts and science, this conspiracy theory is out of character.

I do not have concrete evidence, thus I stated this to be a suspicion and not a factual claim. And my suspicions are reasonable enough, and the current state of the United States shows its signs of the early stages of a Totalitarian setup. History is ripe with examples that support my suspicion. Let us take one example, here in the Philippines, in the dictatorship of Marcos, a few weeks before Martial law was declared, rumors have spread in the country of a threat of a group of communists, there were murders reported, not one was confirmed, but propaganda made it seem to be legitimate threat, thus Marcos responded by taking away the guns of the public, and a week after, he declared martial law, and began the massacre of Filipinos and his political enemies. Years after the martial law, it has been confirmed that there were no Communist presence in the country, and that the events that justified the declaration of Martial law were false-flag attacks, even the building of the legend that is Marcos, stories of him as a war hero, were lies.

And no, if you have a setup where you can only expose a corruption on the inside, through whistle blowers alone, then you have a faulty system. If you only depend on whistleblowers, men of character and courage to expose corruption, knowing how there is only one in a million of them, considering the fact that pyschopaths are the ones who are mostly drawn to power thus populate the government almost entirely, then you can be sure that 99 percent of the time, corruptions are carried out smoothly safely tucked in from the light of day. And if you have a public that just really doesn't care, distracted by the media, and the entertainment business, you can be sure that even if such a government conspiracy is exposed, as Snowden did, and the gravity of what he exposed and its implications, that it will be ignored.