Do you Believe in Miracles? Why or why not?

KeiChrono wrote: Yes, I do believe in miracles But only in those that have been validated by the Holy Church You can read about some of them in here> www.miraclehunter.co.../miracles1.html

What makes you think that the Catholic Church has the capacity or the power to discern what is a miracle and what isn't?

UltimateContrarian wrote:

KeiChrono wrote: Yes, I do believe in miracles But only in those that have been validated by the Holy Church You can read about some of them in here> www.miraclehunter.co.../miracles1.html

What makes you think that the Catholic Church has the capacity or the power to discern what is a miracle and what isn't?

Because it is the only one that is truly based upon the infallible, divine revelation If you read about the discernment of miracles on the page that I linked, you can notice that their evaluation is very rigorous. Lots of events that people would call miracles are not considered as such by the Church. From 7000 so-called miracles at Lourdes, the Church has approved only 67

OP at which point our answer change your life? if you always criticize all for being atheistic, which also I respect.

This is like yes and no questions because whatever the answer is, it is super personal and also its not like you can discuss anyone beliefs..

Pointless.

KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:

KeiChrono wrote: Yes, I do believe in miracles But only in those that have been validated by the Holy Church You can read about some of them in here> www.miraclehunter.co.../miracles1.html

What makes you think that the Catholic Church has the capacity or the power to discern what is a miracle and what isn't?

Because it is the only one that is truly based upon the infallible, divine revelation If you read about the discernment of miracles on the page that I linked, you can notice that their evaluation is very rigorous. Lots of events that people would call miracles are not considered as such by the Church. From 7000 so-called miracles at Lourdes, the Church has approved only 67

There are many religious groups that claim religious infallibility not just the Catholic Church.
And you say infallibility? There are about thousands of cases where the Catholic Church is wrong, claims of the natural world we live in, social and civil justice, of which they have given their apologies and still a thousand more they should feel the urge and the moral obligation to.

One example out of the hundreds I can think of: The catholic church propagated the dogma that every unbaptized children who died will go to a limbo, this had driven Christian parents in those time to severe grief and suffering thinking how could they have allowed their children to suffer such faith trapped in a limbo just because they have not baptized them in time, a hundred of years after, the Catholic Church lifted this dogma and said they made a mistake, and on the very next day assume infallibility again. SMH

Tamm wrote: OP at which point our answer change your life? if you always criticize all for being atheistic, which also I respect.

This is like yes and no questions because whatever the answer is, it is super personal and also its not like you can discuss anyone beliefs..

Pointless.

I am not actually anticipating for an answer that could change my life, on this particular topic maybe so I am not sure what you mean.
I do not criticize atheistic/secular beliefs, it is the opposite.
If a person answers with a yes and a no, plus a reason or justification behind it, then that would be great otherwise, just answer however you please nobody is forcing you.
It can be personal, yes, and yes I can discuss a person's personal belief, anybody's belief, I already am discussing it.

And if you somehow think that your belief is beyond criticism, that it shouldn't be challenged, or that it should be regarded as true automatically, then you are wrong. If you feel that way, then I am sure there are lots of forum topics you can partake in not here. If you regard this as pointless then I respect that, certainly it is not pointless to me.

UltimateContrarian wrote:

KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:

KeiChrono wrote: Yes, I do believe in miracles But only in those that have been validated by the Holy Church You can read about some of them in here> www.miraclehunter.co.../miracles1.html

What makes you think that the Catholic Church has the capacity or the power to discern what is a miracle and what isn't?

Because it is the only one that is truly based upon the infallible, divine revelation If you read about the discernment of miracles on the page that I linked, you can notice that their evaluation is very rigorous. Lots of events that people would call miracles are not considered as such by the Church. From 7000 so-called miracles at Lourdes, the Church has approved only 67

There are many religious groups that claim religious infallibility not just the Catholic Church.
And you say infallibility? There are about thousands of cases where the Catholic Church is wrong, claims of the natural world we live in, social and civil justice, of which they have given their apologies and still a thousand more they should feel the urge and the moral obligation to.

One example out of the hundreds I can think of: The catholic church propagated the dogma that every unbaptized children who died will go to a limbo, this had driven Christian parents in those time to severe grief and suffering thinking how could they have allowed their children to suffer such faith trapped in a limbo just because they have not baptized them in time, a hundred of years after, the Catholic Church lifted this dogma and said they made a mistake, and on the very next day assume infallibility again. SMH

Well, many can claim it, not many can have it For instance, there are lots of faith healers out there who love to invoke the name of Jesus, but that doesn't mean they are the real thing. You should watch Derren Brown's Messiah Also... the people of the Church may have failed at times, but one of the strengths of the Catholic Church resides precisely in its capacity to apologize (like Pope John Paul II did). Apologizing is not a weakness.

The famous limbo has never been an official dogma

This theory, elaborated by theologians beginning in the Middle Ages, never entered into the dogmatic definitions of the Magisterium, even if that same Magisterium did at times mention the theory in its ordinary teaching up until the Second Vatican Council. It remains therefore a possible theological hypothesis. However, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992), the theory of limbo is not mentioned. Rather, the Catechism teaches that infants who die without baptism are entrusted by the Church to the mercy of God, as is shown in the specific funeral rite for such children.

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KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:

KeiChrono wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote:

KeiChrono wrote: Yes, I do believe in miracles But only in those that have been validated by the Holy Church You can read about some of them in here> www.miraclehunter.co.../miracles1.html

What makes you think that the Catholic Church has the capacity or the power to discern what is a miracle and what isn't?

Because it is the only one that is truly based upon the infallible, divine revelation If you read about the discernment of miracles on the page that I linked, you can notice that their evaluation is very rigorous. Lots of events that people would call miracles are not considered as such by the Church. From 7000 so-called miracles at Lourdes, the Church has approved only 67

There are many religious groups that claim religious infallibility not just the Catholic Church.
And you say infallibility? There are about thousands of cases where the Catholic Church is wrong, claims of the natural world we live in, social and civil justice, of which they have given their apologies and still a thousand more they should feel the urge and the moral obligation to.

One example out of the hundreds I can think of: The catholic church propagated the dogma that every unbaptized children who died will go to a limbo, this had driven Christian parents in those time to severe grief and suffering thinking how could they have allowed their children to suffer such faith trapped in a limbo just because they have not baptized them in time, a hundred of years after, the Catholic Church lifted this dogma and said they made a mistake, and on the very next day assume infallibility again. SMH

Well, many can claim it, not many can have it For instance, there are lots of faith healers out there who love to invoke the name of Jesus, but that doesn't mean they are the real thing. You should watch Derren Brown's Messiah Also... the people of the Church may have failed at times, but one of the strengths of the Catholic Church resides precisely in its capacity to apologize (like Pope John Paul II did). Apologizing is not a weakness.

The famous limbo has never been an official dogma

This theory, elaborated by theologians beginning in the Middle Ages, never entered into the dogmatic definitions of the Magisterium, even if that same Magisterium did at times mention the theory in its ordinary teaching up until the Second Vatican Council. It remains therefore a possible theological hypothesis. However, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992), the theory of limbo is not mentioned. Rather, the Catechism teaches that infants who die without baptism are entrusted by the Church to the mercy of God, as is shown in the specific funeral rite for such children.

[/url]

It only shows that they are NOT INFALLIBLE and NOT IN POSITION of a DIVINE WISDOM. They are humans, and it shows by the mistake they make. They have no credibility whatsoever.

Do you seriously believe that people will start posting honestly on this thread if THIS :

UltimateContrarian wrote:

Chiquita wrote: I see it as a miracle that my dad's alcoholism is gone.....he started going to church and being active there.....sober like 5 years now:)
I am not fully religious but he tried everything else and this made the difference:)

That is not a miracle, that change can be accounted to sheer will power. If you think it takes a miracle for a person to turn his or her life around then I think you underestimate the human spirit.

is what's going to happen with each and every story or thought posted here by others that doesn't fit into your imagination and definition of a miracle?
I totally have to agree with Whatusername - seeing from your answers and reactions to the first honest posts on this thread, it is bound to turn into a hotblooded discussion.

Everyone has their own beliefs and definition of what is a miracle from their point of view. And you have zero right to judge or argue against it, just because from your point of view it doesn't qualify as a miracle.
What did you open this thread for? A serious conversation and people sharing their thoughts and experiences or do you want to prove yourself and reform people according to your view of the world?

He made this thread so he could go through the replies and refute all the posts that believe in miracles or have any religious elements. This isn't his first account.

LuckyTree wrote: Do you seriously believe that people will start posting honestly on this thread if THIS :

UltimateContrarian wrote:

Chiquita wrote: I see it as a miracle that my dad's alcoholism is gone.....he started going to church and being active there.....sober like 5 years now:)
I am not fully religious but he tried everything else and this made the difference:)

That is not a miracle, that change can be accounted to sheer will power. If you think it takes a miracle for a person to turn his or her life around then I think you underestimate the human spirit.

is what's going to happen with each and every story or thought posted here by others that doesn't fit into your imagination and definition of a miracle?
I totally have to agree with Whatusername - seeing from your answers and reactions to the first honest posts on this thread, it is bound to turn into a hotblooded discussion.

Everyone has their own beliefs and definition of what is a miracle from their point of view. And you have zero right to judge or argue against it, just because from your point of view it doesn't qualify as a miracle.
What did you open this thread for? A serious conversation and people sharing their thoughts and experiences or do you want to prove yourself and reform people according to your view of the world?

Yes, why would it deprive them the opportunity to be honest? Just because I offer rational criticisms doesn't mean it would warrant people to lie.
And yes I agree, we do not have a disagreement with WHATSUERNAME that this would hurt people. well I also believe that decent people would set aside hurt feelings and would prefer to delve in a rational, sober, intellectual discussion.

I opened this thread to hear about the JUSTIFICATION of Miracles, so you have been forewarned, Justifications in a way that they can be determined whether what they have is a delusion, a wishful-thinking or whether they have some reasonable grounds in believing so.