Do you Believe in Miracles? Why or why not?

joestarbill wrote:

Benny wrote:

joestarbill wrote: Yes, there is the dictionary definition of a miracle being something that is not explainable by science, but everyone has their own definitions and ways of using the word miracle. Whether used to describe small or large events, its all fair game

I don't agree to the fair game deal, western country is not the only place has copy right laws. Chinese invented the most powerful design on earth. And yet western use it to attacking China and play the copy right law against us. Why is this fair ?

China has the power to take over the world, yet we playing nice but you ppl bully us and take us like pussy

What are you even referring to?

When I said "fair game" I meant how different people could use the word "miracle" differently. For example. If someone survived a car crash, they could consider it a miracle. Someone who found a nickle could consider it a "miracle" if they were just short 5 cents and truly needed it to buy something.

Yes, you can use that in some way. But when I use the term Miracle, I refer it to the suspension of the laws of nature for the service of one individual.

I argue that the laws of nature are consistent, they are never broken and as Einstein once said, and I quote, "The only miracle is that there are no miracles : that the natural order is in fact harmonious and not to be interrupted by capricious supernatural interventions

UltimateContrarian wrote:

joestarbill wrote:

Benny wrote:

joestarbill wrote: Yes, there is the dictionary definition of a miracle being something that is not explainable by science, but everyone has their own definitions and ways of using the word miracle. Whether used to describe small or large events, its all fair game

I don't agree to the fair game deal, western country is not the only place has copy right laws. Chinese invented the most powerful design on earth. And yet western use it to attacking China and play the copy right law against us. Why is this fair ?

China has the power to take over the world, yet we playing nice but you ppl bully us and take us like pussy

What are you even referring to?

When I said "fair game" I meant how different people could use the word "miracle" differently. For example. If someone survived a car crash, they could consider it a miracle. Someone who found a nickle could consider it a "miracle" if they were just short 5 cents and truly needed it to buy something.

Yes, you can use that in some way. But when I use the term Miracle, I refer it to the suspension of the laws of nature for the service of one individual.

I argue that the laws of nature are consistent, they are never broken and as Einstein once said, and I quote, "The only miracle is that there are no miracles : that the natural order is in fact harmonious and not to be interrupted by capricious supernatural interventions

Ok you don't believe in miracle,how about magic then? Paper leads to a lot of things.

UltimateContrarian wrote: I argue that the laws of nature are consistent, they are never broken and as Einstein once said, and I quote, "The only miracle is that there are no miracles : that the natural order is in fact harmonious and not to be interrupted by capricious supernatural interventions

It's so cute when an art major quotes Einstein to compensate. Actually? Laws of nature break down all the time. Laws of physics break down in blackholes, which are not rare in our universe. Atoms didn't exist when universe was younger than 400,000 years after the Big Bang. Before 10^-32 seconds after the Big Bang, the fundamental forces of nature as we know them didn't exist. The Higgs field gives particles mass, and at temperature above 10^15 K, it stops doing that. When you take the Higgs mass away from the particles that carry the weak nuclear force, they become just like photon, which carries the electromagnetic force. The weak force and electromagnetic forces merge into one force at such temperature. When you rewind further back to 10^-42 seconds after the Big Bang, all the matter in the universe is packed into size of the Planck Length and physics basically goes bat shit insane.

So, tell us how you truly feel? Who hurt your feelings that you feel the need to go after low hanging fruits like miracles and religion to validate your intelligence? Want to talk science? Go debate TheProfessor about the implications of numerous medical studies and data being unpublished because the result wasn't what the researchers were looking for, such as the Minnesota Coronary Experiment, and how that might have affected our conventional view of health and science. How poorly designed studies, or poor equipments, such as mislabelled antibodies that don't bind to the proteins that they're supposed to, are threatening the integrity of scientific studies. Oh right, you can't, because you only know buzz words like Placebo Effect, freedom of speech, and Psychopathy, without knowing anything indepth about the words you're throwing around.

Go pick up a book.

Whatusername wrote:

UltimateContrarian wrote: I argue that the laws of nature are consistent, they are never broken and as Einstein once said, and I quote, "The only miracle is that there are no miracles : that the natural order is in fact harmonious and not to be interrupted by capricious supernatural interventions

It's so cute when an art major quotes Einstein to compensate. Actually? Laws of nature breaks down all the time. Laws of physics break down in blackholes, which are not rare in our universe. Atoms didn't exist when universe was younger than 400,000 years after the Big Bang. Before 10^-32 seconds after the Big Bang, the fundamental forces of nature as we know them didn't exist. The Higgs field gives particles mass, and at temperature above 10^15 K, it stops doing that. When you take the Higgs mass away the particles that carry the weak nuclear force, they become just like photon, which carries the electromagnetic force. The weak force and electromagnetic forces merge into one force at such temperature. When you rewind further back to 10^-42 seconds after the Big Bang, all the matter in the universe is packed into size of the Planck Length and physics basically goes bat shit insane.

So, tell us how you truly feel? Who hurt your feelings that you feel the need to go after low hanging fruits like miracles and religion to validate your intelligence? Want to talk science? Go debate TheProfessor about the implications of numerous medical studies and data being unpublished because the result wasn't what the researchers were looking for, such as the Minnesota Coronary Experiment, and how that might have affect our conventional view of health and science. How poorly designed studies, or poor equipments, such as antibodies that don't bind to the proteins that they're supposed to are threatening the integrity of scientifc studies. Oh right, you can't, because you only know buzz words like Placebo Effect, freedom of speech, and Psychopathy, without knowing anything indepth about the words you're throwing around.

Go pick up a book.

I hope that book isn't made in China , it would have insult their intelligence then.

Guys, he has spoken. There is a god, ok? He looks down upon us from the sky and makes sure everything is OK along with all the other gods and sends us tsunamis, earthquakes, poverty and ISIS. Today is a miracle !

Yes, that is true, The laws of nature does break down especially in the quantum level, when you are dealing with very small particles, and especially when you are dealing with very huge mass in that respect, black holes, it doesn't mean that the laws are broken, it only means that there are a whole new different laws in those levels, that the laws in other different levels no longer apply. The activity of the quantum particles can be measured, as well the properties of a black holes, there might be a few mysteries that are still hard to understand, questions to be answered, but scientists do not call them as miracles, they call it as their ignorance in that field. In the macro level, the laws of nature is consistent, it never breaks down. The beauty of science is that it knows what it doesn't know and it works on the things it doesn't know, not copping out and saying it is a miracle thus no further discussion is needed.

Now speaking about the macro level, no matter how you pray, no matter what psychological conditioning you are gonna try to exercise, when you jump off a cliff, the laws of nature will take effect, it doesn't matter if you are praying to the right god, it doesn't care about your aspirations, the laws of gravity will send you plunging to the ground to your demise. Let us talk about the miracles in religious books, and let us quote David Humes:"Which is more likely, that the laws of nature are suspended in your favor, or that you are under a grave misapprehension?".

I completely agree with the remainder of the first paragraph of your comment, right after the first sentence. I don't understand why you are using that to refute me, it works on my favor.

Well, it appears that you are very emotional about this topic, that you wanna attack me personally because of my views instead of my argument, indulging in Ad Hominem, and I know that I have won the debate already. Well if you wanna take it to a personal level, then let's do. I see that you are a person who clearly has not read the arguments on the opposing side. You react and argue like a girl having her period, always trying to be emotionally invested, the only person who is hurt here, is you. I have remained objective, setting aside personal feelings because I know they are irrelevant to any intellectual discussions like this. And yes I will debate the professor should I delve into the medical field. And Yes I do Art, and I have also taken Architecture, but it doesn't make me an ignorant to other fields.

Next time you debate with me, try to be less emotional and if you do not respect reason and evidence, and philosophical arguments, then you better not be involved here, because I do respect them, the pursuit of knowledge and understanding is what gives meaning to my life, I understand it doesn't for you. It is not about who is smart although I know you feel threatened knowing you have admitted to the fact of how incompetent you are in these discussions. I can see that you and your friends, having these nonsensical, retarded, childish talks pervading and occupying the majority of the forums that it is almost impossible to have meaningful, worthwhile conversations with other members here. There are people who share the same passion as I do. I have received a couple of mails too, from members here thanking me for the stand I am making, complaining how the same people like yourself and your friends always teaming up and attacking those who disagree with you. So here is my suggestion, if you feel that you cannot contribute to this discussion, just stay out of it.

I have received a couple of mails too, from members here thanking me for the stand I am making, complaining how the same people like yourself and your friends always teaming up and attacking those who disagree with you

I wonder who are those people? Teaming up and attacking? I don't think so.. I think they should be part of the forum as well and support your words so in that way they don't see you playing the victim card.

Tamm wrote:

I have received a couple of mails too, from members here thanking me for the stand I am making, complaining how the same people like yourself and your friends always teaming up and attacking those who disagree with you

I wonder who are those people? Teaming up and attacking? I don't think so.. I think they should be part of the forum as well and support your words so in that way they don't see you playing the victim card.

I never play the victim, never once did I ever feel being threatened here, it was you and your friends who have been playing the victims, reacting very emotionally, calling me names and attacking my character that is, well beyond the bounds of the topic I wanna discuss here. Yeah perhaps they will participate more, when personal attacks stop from your side. That would be very interesting and hey-ai can then maximize it's potential in giving a platform to meaningful and worthwhile conversations without the trolls here that immediately pull down the IQ of any forum to that of a 7-year old.

But see, this thread isn't about science, or if law of gravity applies when you jump off a cliff. It's about you, and the posts are personal because the thread is personal. This thread is about your insecurities and your need to smack down other people's posts about good things that happened to them, going after low hanging fruits as I stated. You literally have no indepth knowledge of anything that you talk about, but you still feel the need to parade around yelling "look at me and what I know! Here are some words, the best words". Shouldn't you be in a church somewhere insulting those people?

Please, the only two emotions I have online is amusement and belittling, and you're falling into the latter. Sometimes, when a lot of people are against you, it doesn't mean they're teaming up on you. You know the saying, "if you met an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. If you met assholes all day, you're the asshole".

Whatusername wrote: But see, this thread isn't about science, or if law of gravity applies when you jump off a cliff. It's about you, and the posts are personal because the thread is personal. This thread is about your insecurities and your need to smack down other people's posts about good things that happened to them, going after low hanging fruits as I stated. You literally have no indepth knowledge of anything that you talk about, but you still feel the need to parade around yelling "look at me and what I know! Here are some words, the best words". Shouldn't you be in a church somewhere insulting those people?

Please, the only two emotions I have online is amusement and belittling, and you're falling into the latter. Sometimes, when a lot of people are against you, it doesn't mean they're teaming up on you. You know the saying, "if you met an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. If you met assholes all day, you're the asshole".

You've had your chance boy chick. You lose.