EDUCATION REFORM ANYONE?

JackOfAllTrades wrote: Better yet, why is it that I have to take College Composition or Intermediate Chemistry to graduate? This is college - higher education - should I not be learning more on which angle works best for an exterior shot or how light interferes with the camera lens's sensitivity.

Because so you don't drink acid for fun? I'm not saying the education system is perfect, but you rather just learn things related to your major and be completely ignorant on everything else, not knowing why it rains, think thunder is caused by gods and chase after a rainbow? Fundamental science and math should be taught to everyone no matter the major, so we don't get more of this shit.

JackOfAllTrades wrote: Not only in college, but also in high school. My bigger question is why do we put so much emphasis on academics that we don't even use in the ordinary life? When was the last time I needed to use my knowledge of algebra or chemistry to get through my day-to-day tasks? Let me as you this, why is it that we still remember how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide, yet can't remember how to solve 'x + y = ?' or some equation of that sort. Time in school would be better spent on teaching us how to further survive in the world. When I got out of high school, I didn't know what a down payment was, I didn't know what a 401K was, I didn't know where to go to vote for politicians, and I almost killed my employer when I saw that I got less than what I was expecting in my paycheck cause I didn't know that taxes were to be deducted from my pay.

What the hell kind of high school did you go to?

my 02 cents

the gen. ed. courses are supposed to give incoming college students a sense of direction... they allow a person to dabble in a couple of areas in hopes of sparking interest somewhere...

some argue they make a person well rounded... which has limited value, in my opinion... "jack of all trades" ... master of none... and those classes are on such a high level, you don't learn the intricacies of the trade anyway.

bbutton80 wrote: The structure of education is continuously being reformed by experts in the field, and I bet they are doing their best to feed the youth with the most useful information. Everybody leads different lives and uses their education in various ways. I find the Pythagorean theorem useful in my field of study, but I don't find history useful at all. However, I know it will help me understand politics and law - enough for me to make an educated vote. Knowledge is power - whether or not you use it doesn't matter so much, but why not take the opportunity to learn as much as you can, when you can? It may be useful in your future, just not right now or on a day to day basis.

As for tax returns and 401k stuff, there's google. If you want to learn how to drive a vehicle, there's the dmv. The purpose of our education system isn't to give you all the information YOU need to know for the rest of your life, because that isn't possible. The purpose of school is to teach you common knowledge so you have a better understanding of the world. No one cares about what shakespeare has to say, but by reading and discussing his literature, you are improving your ability to communicate.

If you wish to learn past the basics, you have to do it yourself. In my opinion, the people who choose what we learn have more expertise in the field and I would trust that they are providing essential education.

But let me ask you this, is Shakespearean speech-craft an actual necessity when communicating with others? Again, as for Pythagorean's theorem, that's you, obviously your career field has something to do with advanced mathematics, mine doesn't. And I must say to the contrary, history is quite important in my belief, far more than algebra or chemistry itself. It teaches you to learn from other's mistakes and whatnot and that is what part of life is all about, sadly I cannot say the same for previously mentioned academics (algebra, chemistry, etc.). I really don't see how my knowledge of algebraic equations helps with anything I do on a daily basis these days, perfect example, why is it that I remember how to do addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division all perfectly well, yet when it comes to algebra, geometry, etc., I can't remember a thing? Reason being is cause I haven't used it at all since high school. As for learning other how to do my taxes on Google, the same can also be said with algebra, chemistry, etc., I can learn that on Google too (on a note, back then when I was a kid, there wasn't even a Google to begin with). Again, I'm proposing why don't we learn things in school geared more towards actual everyday use and I'm not saying teach EVERYTHING, of course that's impossible, but when I say learn things that you need to know, I mean stuff that actually is what we NEED. Let me put it this way, would it be more fruitful to learn how many tax deductions you can qualify for or how reactants and products are both coefficients in a chemistry equation? See my gist? Time in this world is limited, far too limited to learn things such as algebra, chemistry, etc. when I should be learning federal laws on tax income deductions, what banks often use in terms when speaking and how loans work out, etc.

giuseppina wrote: I am not trying to offend you, but you sound extremely ignorant. I don't think anyone has to be educated by a teacher to know what "income taxes" are...or even what a "down payment" is. I am positive that school has taught you how to use a dictionary... If you had common sense and listened in school, you would know that taxes play a fundamental role in a country's economy. Furthermore, how hard is it to calculate taxes? Basic elementary school mathematics. I have 10 apples, but there are only 3 remaining. How many apple did I eat? Oh wait, "x+y=z" is too hard for you. Sorry if I am being harsh, but it's sad seeing someone criticizing a school system, while they lack common sense.

Funny how the same could be said for YOUR argument - no offense intended as well. My emphasis isn't so much as the simple skills of deducting from one's own account or taxes, but of what we can learn in order to know what we qualify for or how my rights as a citizen may nullify a new law that brings in a new tax law, etc. Do believe me, I knew what a down payment was when in high school, however...the same cannot be said for many of my younger alma mater colleagues. And yes, while we were taught about the importance of taxation, at the same time, we were not taught which we were qualified for when we got out, if we were single, if we had kids, if we had more than one job, etc. Let me ask you this, with all this knowledge, all this experience in such advanced academics, why is it that I have to go visit (and PAY) a CPA consultant in order to help me get a better deal on my tax returns? Why is it that I didn't know that by law, I could not miss a jury summons (at least not with the government knowing that I had a steady job and a vehicle available for 24/7 transportation)? Why is it that I didn't know how to voice my opinion on some legislative matters while I just sat there cursing out at them for raising the sales taxes here where I live?
What I find even more sad is someone blindly following a path set for them already by someone else in the education system, what is more sad is that some will actually just open their gullet and just say "yes, sir" and do as instructed when they won't even question whether they're being duped out of their money or simply used as the Department of Education's aristocratic amusement...again, no offense and not trying to be harsh.

Whatusername wrote:

JackOfAllTrades wrote: Better yet, why is it that I have to take College Composition or Intermediate Chemistry to graduate? This is college - higher education - should I not be learning more on which angle works best for an exterior shot or how light interferes with the camera lens's sensitivity.

Because so you don't drink acid for fun? I'm not saying the education system is perfect, but you rather just learn things related to your major and be completely ignorant on everything else, not knowing why it rains, think thunder is caused by gods and chase after a rainbow? Fundamental science and math should be taught to everyone no matter the major, so we don't get more of this shit.

JackOfAllTrades wrote: Not only in college, but also in high school. My bigger question is why do we put so much emphasis on academics that we don't even use in the ordinary life? When was the last time I needed to use my knowledge of algebra or chemistry to get through my day-to-day tasks? Let me as you this, why is it that we still remember how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide, yet can't remember how to solve 'x + y = ?' or some equation of that sort. Time in school would be better spent on teaching us how to further survive in the world. When I got out of high school, I didn't know what a down payment was, I didn't know what a 401K was, I didn't know where to go to vote for politicians, and I almost killed my employer when I saw that I got less than what I was expecting in my paycheck cause I didn't know that taxes were to be deducted from my pay.

What the hell kind of high school did you go to?

Last I checked, acid was not a daily consumed liquid (amino acids and such don't count since they're suppose to be in your body), unless I'm mistaken and consuming TOXIC acid is the new trend these days. And I didn't mean get rid of all education (please re-read my post), addition, subtraction, multiplication, division - yes, all are necessary. Spelling, composition, vocabulary, etc. - of course. Astronomy, physics - duh! But my problem is with the even more advanced academics (algebra, geometry, chemistry, oceanography, etc.), why is it that we're so much more focused on this than our career field/major (for college) or how about high school, why is it that we're more focused on these advanced subjects than how to survive and be a productive member of society?

P.S. Oxnard High School

support wrote: my 02 cents

the gen. ed. courses are supposed to give incoming college students a sense of direction... they allow a person to dabble in a couple of areas in hopes of sparking interest somewhere...

some argue they make a person well rounded... which has limited value, in my opinion... "jack of all trades" ... master of none... and those classes are on such a high level, you don't learn the intricacies of the trade anyway.

Now that on the other hand makes a bit more sense, but have you seen the requirements to graduate or even transfer? It's ridiculous.

JackOfAllTrades wrote: And I didn't mean get rid of all education (please re-read my post), addition, subtraction, multiplication, division - yes, all are necessary. Spelling, composition, vocabulary, etc. - of course. Astronomy, physics - duh! But my problem is with the even more advanced academics (algebra, geometry, chemistry, oceanography, etc.), why is it that we're so much more focused on this than our career field/major (for college) or how about high school, why is it that we're more focused on these advanced subjects than how to survive and be a productive member of society?

Chemistry, so you know
-why water evaporates, why you sweat, why putting salt on a cold day melts the ice
-why energy cannot be created out of nowhere so you don't waste your time trying
-why you can't uncook an egg

Oceanography, so you know
-about plate tectonics, why earthquake happens and where they happen
-why throwing your trash in the ocean is a bad idea
-why water in some places is warmer than other
-why you shouldn't fuck with salmons when they're traveling back to spawn

Biology, so you know
-why dumping oil and toxic waste down the drain is a bad idea
-why having plants at home is good or why plants are good in general so you don't cut down every tree you see for wood
-why the ecology works the way it does and why hunting a species to extinction is uhh bad.

And you just called algebra and geometry advance academics...

Basically it's so your average person, or average college grad don't think things happen because of gods. I cannot believe this is happening. You actually want people to be less educated and be more specialized so they're even more fucked when not in their workplace.

School isn't meant to teach you everything. It's meant to give you a foundation and teach you how to learn.

JackOfAllTrades wrote:

giuseppina wrote: I am not trying to offend you, but you sound extremely ignorant. I don't think anyone has to be educated by a teacher to know what "income taxes" are...or even what a "down payment" is. I am positive that school has taught you how to use a dictionary... If you had common sense and listened in school, you would know that taxes play a fundamental role in a country's economy. Furthermore, how hard is it to calculate taxes? Basic elementary school mathematics. I have 10 apples, but there are only 3 remaining. How many apple did I eat? Oh wait, "x+y=z" is too hard for you. Sorry if I am being harsh, but it's sad seeing someone criticizing a school system, while they lack common sense.

Funny how the same could be said for YOUR argument - no offense intended as well. My emphasis isn't so much as the simple skills of deducting from one's own account or taxes, but of what we can learn in order to know what we qualify for or how my rights as a citizen may nullify a new law that brings in a new tax law, etc. Do believe me, I knew what a down payment was when in high school, however...the same cannot be said for many of my younger alma mater colleagues. And yes, while we were taught about the importance of taxation, at the same time, we were not taught which we were qualified for when we got out, if we were single, if we had kids, if we had more than one job, etc. Let me ask you this, with all this knowledge, all this experience in such advanced academics, why is it that I have to go visit (and PAY) a CPA consultant in order to help me get a better deal on my tax returns? Why is it that I didn't know that by law, I could not miss a jury summons (at least not with the government knowing that I had a steady job and a vehicle available for 24/7 transportation)? Why is it that I didn't know how to voice my opinion on some legislative matters while I just sat there cursing out at them for raising the sales taxes here where I live?
What I find even more sad is someone blindly following a path set for them already by someone else in the education system, what is more sad is that some will actually just open their gullet and just say "yes, sir" and do as instructed when they won't even question whether they're being duped out of their money or simply used as the Department of Education's aristocratic amusement...again, no offense and not trying to be harsh.

I totally agree with your view now, thanks for clarifying your point. However, that's another topic; companies or the government finding ways to get money out of your pocket.

@Whatusername, I love you. Amen.

JackOfAllTrades wrote: But my problem is with the even more advanced academics (algebra, geometry, chemistry, oceanography, etc.), why is it that we're so much more focused on this than our career field/major (for college) or how about high school, why is it that we're more focused on these advanced subjects than how to survive and be a productive member of society?

Because laws and societies change.. And if you decide to live in another country, they have different laws and systems too. Investments, taxation, banking and voting can all be different in other countries. Or they can be reformed and updated. Whereas algebra, chemistry, geometry etc. are things you take with you wherever you go (even if there's a zombie apocalypse).

Besides, imagine how much more difficult university would be if you took a science degree without knowing anything about algebra/geometry/chemistry and had to learn everything from scratch? I didn't take physics in high school and had to take intermediate physics as one of my units in university. That wasn't easy. The professor even said "if you've never taken basic physics before, this unit would be a challenge for you".

But thanks to the math lessons I received in high school, I managed to eventually do well in it (after much frustration). Without knowing the fundamentals in math, there was no way I would've passed that unit in one semester. Since you can't expect kids in high school to be definitely sure of their future career path, it is always good to impart them with these fundamentals.

I agree that once you hit university, you shouldn't be forced to learn things totally unrelated to your course though. IMO art shouldn't ever be mandatory at any level but simply offered as a choice.